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(Please do not take the following comments personally. It's a general opinion on what the KS trend is)Fair enough, but the average delay for KS projects is close to absurd. There have been enough KS boardgame projects so that creators can more accurately set their fulfillment dates. Oh, but it sells better to set an unrealistic date and then delay things once all the monies have been collected. This would just not happen in any other serious business where creators/manufacturers may be held liable for substantial defaults. I am not implying that this should happen on KS too. Just saying that more accurate terms is what we need. Take KD:M as an example: Adam Poots knows that he will sell his game even if he states that fulfillment might not be 100% completed until 2020 and beyond. That's better than bearing a 3-year unexpected delay (which in KD:M's case might well even take place too!). It is also upsetting to find the same games available way cheaper on your FLGS even before than backers have received their copies. Another example: I have waited 6 months for some replacement parts for a game I backed. I paid for shipping, and some premium $$ for some minor KS exclusives because I wanted to support an indie project. Then, before production, we learnt that the game was to be distributed by one of the majors (=thus the end to the "indie" label). MY KS copy (and many others') came with several flaws so at the end of the day I have paid 2 years in advance for a flawed game which was available in shops cheaper and many months before I received my replacement parts. Besides, my general feeling is that KS is flooded with mediocre projects (and it becomes harder and harder to tell the real good ones from the rest), that prices are inflated in general terms, that delays are just unnaceptable and that there is an increasingly backer community which is becoming fed up of being mistreated, that creators seem to ask for more and more and give less in return which is an apparent contradiction in an increasingly competitive environment such as the boardgaming market is. I have personally limited my KS interest to a very few projects which I deem really worth backing. If the KS platform allowed for a more backer-friendly interaction in terms of quality, prices, fulfillment terms, reliable info to backers, risk management, etc. I would be happy to back many more projects. But atm the balance isn't just there, so I am too quitting from most of the KS campaigns which seem interesting at first glance. Sorry to say.
My point is, maybe people needs to be a little more forgiving to new kickstarters and take these delays for granted as part of the normal development, so if a game from a new company says it will be out in 6 months, I would add 3-4 months, I am not trying to excuse them or us but if you have participated in an indie KS before it is nothing shockingly new
Besides, my general feeling is that KS is flooded with mediocre projects (and it becomes harder and harder to tell the real good ones from the rest)
But the point of Kickstarter is to help people realize projects, if everybody would think like this, the boardgaming community would be dead.I believe it is thanks to the trust of backers placed in kickstarter projects like ours that we have seen a return to boardgames, we need help on KS (at least for small indie developers) or in the future you'll have to buy them only from Games Workshop, Fantasy Flight and CMON.
THIS. 10000 times. What I find baffling is how people not new to the intrincancies of KS still get surprise and/or angry when their game is delayed.Sturgeon's Law is your friend.
I completely get your point, and yes it is hard to distinguish good from mediocre I can see this trend on KS of late but I will always support someone who is more indie and passionate about their work than someone who will just churn out their new quarterly "product" to fill in the gaps in their yearly business (but that is just me).When it comes to delays I think if you are a new company it is nearly impossible to avoid them from happening, there are just too many unknown variables beside the original money estimates (come on who could predict Brexit?), while if you have had 1 or 2 projects under your belt, then it becomes less excusable because you should know by now how these things works (unless you have completely changed your working pipe-line).My point is, maybe people needs to be a little more forgiving to new kickstarters and take these delays for granted as part of the normal development, so if a game from a new company says it will be out in 6 months, I would add 3-4 months, I am not trying to excuse them or us but if you have participated in an indie KS before it is nothing shockingly new And slightly off topic, even MASSIVE companies like Bungie, Blizzard and Bioware with millions to spare and hundreds of people to work for them have suffered delays. Game development in all its form it is just too unpredictable to be a perfect science.When it comes to Dark Ice Games however, I think we have learned our lesson: Finish the base game first, launch a KS then work and release the expansions after the base game has shipped, trying to do all at once will just cause obvious delays.
I am neither surprised nor angry, my friend.
Thanks for the Sturgeon's law reference, but my point there is that many of us just don't have the time or are just not in the mood to invest into investigating the myridad of "cool looking-shitty at heart" projects that plague KS these days.
Missing the part where I say you were, mon ami Easy peasy, if you don't have/are not willing to put the time just don't use KS. Are there really THAT MANY KS that interest you? You can't spend a few minutes checking if it is the creators' first project or how it went with their prior KS to have an idea which way it will probably go with their newest adventure? Then, don't use KS. And even if you do your homework, investing in a KS project it's always a gamble. If you are not willing to risk your "hard earned money", then don't use KS. You will save yourself a lot of pain.PD: I mean "you" as in "you people", plural, not you specifically
Just in case you included me in the "people not new to the intricacies of KS" group And you are right, that's precisely why I have almost quitted KS for good, and many other people I know of too. But it's a pity that the "if you don't like it, don't use it" argument is the best we can get these days. There are risks which I find reasonable, but others just don't add for me. I believe that things could be done better than "take it or leave it", but to each their own. Have a good day and see you on the KD:M side hehe.
Para los que no entendeis ingles, solo estan hablando de Kickstarter en si y de compañias indies, bla bla, etc etc. Nada referente al proyecto DLMM ni a actualizaciones de este
Y [member=1402]Manchi[/member], la analogía del "reguetón" es bastante flojilla ,
empezando porque a todos nos gustan los juegos de mesa